I am a big fan of animation including the flat 2D kind
but as I look around it occurs to me that alot of the "2D'" Animation
shows and movies lately are really 3D animation with high quality Cell shaders
I recently Got the disneys "Atlantis the lost empire" on DVD for my kids
and it was replete with 3D animation that was cell shaded to match the 2D elements.

"Titan AE" was probably % 50 cell shaded3D
as was "Heavy Metal 2000"
There is a morning TV show called "Zoids"
a manga style show about battling human controled giant robots
that has some very good cell shaded 3D animation
it looks like 3d animation is a growth industry.

Youre absolutely right. I think the next decade will be extremely interesting. With low-cost DVD authoring on its way and TV quality 3D animation becoming available to the dedicated amateur, there could be an explosion of animation similar to Japanese "OVA" style anime, with small studios producing self-financed DVD releases. It was fascinating to see in a few recent threads just what some people are up to with this "limited" Poser software.

I agree, I think most of it will be 3d with the 2d/cel-shading you're talking about. I love that look, especially in Titan AE. Have you all seen the game Oni? Similar look, I think a lot of the animation will go that way. How's your film going, wolf?

Well, let's face it -- it's faster and more cost-efficient in the long run, even if it does take a certain quality away from the look of the animation (I still have problems with Disney's sometimes obvious mix of CGI and traditional). But it's an inescapable trend, one that'll relegate traditional 2D pretty much to "art" projects.

Hmmm, Does anyone know if there are any plans to include a high quality cell shader in Poser 5?

That would be nice.

You payin' attention to this, kupa?

Interesting point Wolf. Like yourself, I'm a big fan of 2D animation too, and I've also noticed the 3D elements being slipped in there too. "The Road to Eldorado" springs to mind - quite a bit of computer-generated work in there. Probably the first one that springs to mind is "Beauty and the Beast" (There's that smoothness to the ballroom scene that when I saw it at the time made me think, "hmmm, computers?") I vividly remember a documentary from a few years back in which a film critic was quoted as saying, "Computer animation will never be able to recreate the look and feel of traditional cell animation"...Well, maybe not for long. Still, as much as I love 3D animation, which I'm crazy about, it would be a shame to see the skills associated with 2D animation becoming obsolete. (Bit like the current school of 3D animators forgetting who Ray Harryhausen is). I guess this is a pioneering time for all animators, and we should be using every tool and every medium to create it. As for that Poser 5 high-quality cell shader? Yep, we like that!!! Dave :-)

"How's your film going, wolf? "

Hi Silver i have all of the primary and supporting characters i think
and have worked out my indoor lighting style but now
ive started to build outdoor broad daylight rigs
i want the "sets" to have a very H.R. Gieger
ancient technology feel to them
and with the impending arrival of MIMIc for the mac in april i am very exited about doing the dialog
.
thanks for asking

I'd like to add my vote for a Poser cell-shader, also. Cartoon+Line mode just doesn't cut it, and running the video through a gauntlet of filters in postproduction can be grueling.

Anyone watch Futurama? More than a bit of 3D in that series, also. It blends well, but you can always tell the difference because 3D permits stunts (movement, etc.) that would be impractical with traditional cell animation.

In reponse to various indicators, like the success of some 3D films (Shrek, Toy Story) and the failure of other films (Titan AE), some animation shops are going out of business and Disney is retraining its flatliners (who have to take a pay cut) to do 3D. The advantage to 3D is that it speeds up the process over cel-drawing, and it can be used to produce animations that look like tradition 2D cel work, to ease the transition for people who are confused, scared, angered or turned off by 3D.

However, we must not forget that whatever tool or technique, an animator's job is STILL to animate... to give life, soul, purpose, and meaning to movement. Any computer can do kinesmatics. ONLY we animators can make something seem real enough to care about. As audiences become more deadened and jaded, our job becomes increasingly difficult, but we must never lose sight of the goal. And yes, if this message seems familiar, I authored an article on "animation vs kinematics" for a trade zine a few years back, and it is still relevant. Carolly

There's that smoothness to the ballroom scene that when I saw it at the time made me think, "hmmm, computers?" You know, that scene has bothered me for years. Up until then, BATB is a beautifully done piece of work: elegant backgrounds (love the ones in the opening sequence), marvelously subtle touches in the characters -- and then we get this obviously CGI ballroom that doesn't fit with the rest of the film at all. It was clearly an "artistic masturbation" shot that looked fabulous but detracted like hell from everything else in the film. I was hoping they would do something about that for the new Imax version, but no such luck...