Oooh. Macbeth that's a great shot. More in that series around? :) Nice tapestry. I just had a chat with an historian who tells me that the Normans used stone stairs in towers and the towers were relativly narrow so the stairs almost filled it. They also have a heavy rope handrail along the outside wall held by iron eyepin like things and sometimes by stone ones. The steps are fairly wedge shaped, so I think back to my terrains. I don't fell like haveing each step booleaned. Trying to keep the object count down to a dull roar. As for interior steps the first flight up was almost always wood (so it could be burned or chopped away) and the risers were different heights to make it harder to climb them. Clever. Terrains again - don't have to worry about getting the heights exact too! The baumgarten site was the one I was thinking of. Thanks! And the multireplication thing shuld do the trick. Thanks guys, Lyrra