over in the Rhino forum... we have two "catagories" advanced and new user; it is generally left to the artist to decide WHEN they are ready to move from new to advanced. The general rule of thumb is "you win 2 challenges" then you are ready to move into the advanced level. So how about something like that, an advanced user and the newbie using the same challenge, but different catagories ? I know it isn't "winning" that it the jest of the challenges, it is pushing your abilities to the max, but it balances the playing field by being judged against someone with the "same" level of talent. I am very much a newbie to Bryce and Rhino .. trying to learn both at once ... my poor little brain can't handle it ...LOL regards, bob