In the case of Dragonayerie, it most likely has to do with your browser - I went over there with my old Netscape 4.7 and it bombed. MS Explorer, though, could run it fine. It's a perfectly innocent site, believe me, that uses Java applets and stuff that your browser doesn't understand. That's most likely the problem. Also, there's been some major trouble with bandwidth on the web since last night - maybe transatlantic trouble, I'm not sure. Incredibly slow. Might even have to do with the tremor on the US/Canadian East Coast? But some other sites are real 'black holes', wasting our time, although that seldom happens here. More often it's the incredibly tedious type of site with a million new browser windows that pop up, and commercials and D/L pages and links to ftp sites and free hosts in all directions and so on.... I most often just get the h*ll out and leave it. :] FishNose