Here's one for ya too....Corel Dream 3D...it's on the Corel Draw 8 CD....you can get that all day long on Ebay for less than $20.00 plus you get corel draw and Photo paint too...anyway Corel Dream 3D was Ray Dream 3.xx when Corel bought out Fractal....saves files as VRMl format (.wrl)goes right strait into BRYCE 5....fairly easy to learn and has nice Corel "Help" too......with Photo Paint you can make Symetrical Latices for Bryce...and you're pretty much good to go for a couple of months of experimenting / creating l8r, Timinator