Melanie, in case you hadn't noticed your not allowed to discuss Poser gallery images in the Poser forum either. I don't entirely understand that but what the hey, it's easy enough to take the discussion to another site that does allow some freedom and there's enough choices out there now to suit almost anyone's taste in forum. Unfortunately we can't post links to them as they're almost all commercially oriented, but they're easy to find. I can in a way understand the restriction of posts regarding the market place in Poser Forum because some people don't understand "reasonable behaviour", so flood the place with multiple threads on the same topic rather than revisiting one they started earlier. But, enough noise was made that the vendors were segregated. In a way it's not that bad, if they're allowed to post a link into Poser forum to their product display in the vendor gallery when someone asks for something they can take a good look at the renders in there, and I suppose find a link to the store front. This helps a bit so the Poser chat doesn't get buried. I really fail to understand though why vendors can't announce products in Poser forum. after all, that's where their customer base lives. To ban other sites and linking is patently ridiculous. That's centrism gone insane. If a site cannot link to it's own pages, then there's no reason to maintain a favour link back to here. It's that kind of attitude that kills sites. This might be currently the largest forum site available for 3d users but it's not the only one. How long can it really survive by isolation, segregation and centrism? Good examples of this kind of thing and the damage they do is the Paramount witch hunt of Star Trek fan sites that did untold damage to them and the inane legislation enforced by TSR that prevented AD&D fans from creating sites, so well designed that TSR themselves couldn't have one until recently. Do people not learn from this kind of silliness? New users search the net for Poser and poser related stuff. It won't be long before Renderosity no longer appears at the top of the list and marketing only works to a certain level before the benefits no longer apply. Upsetting large numbers of people is counter-productive. OK, so new members are signing up every day. Big deal, so too are they signing up elsewhere. Not because any one site is better than another but to get information and freebies from multiple sources. It's that healthy form of greed that makes life fun rather than the bitter sour tasting spite of a certain few who want to own everything and control everything. Whatever the long term outcome of this particular fiasco is going to be remains to be seen but I doubt it's the end of the argument even if Rena does have her answers and a way of operating inside TOS. Thing is, the more the PTB step on the user base to create their Disney paradise, the more harm they're doing to themselves. Unfortunately there's too many pc guardianistas around now and they want total control, their way, regardless. A lot of good people have been lost to this community over the years from a variety of bullshit. It's a shame that lessons seem to be very hard to learn and memories are short when a little bit of power is up for grabs. How many more have to be alienated and/or driven away before someone actually learns something? In fairness the renderosity site does not belong to the public. It is a private business concern and the owners may run it into the ground and oblivion anyway they wish. Just so long as they remember that without people, without the experience of some of the site members there is nothing except a fancy set of pages, some fancy code and a waste of space. I only hope that the other forums out there watch this site carefully and learn from it's sometimes glaring errors of judgement and do not repeat these mistakes, or other mistakes of the past that are so rapidly arriving here. Not of course that my thoughts matter a damn, I'm just one person, one piece of noise who really isn't very active around here anymore. Can't imagine why.