soulhuntre as a modeler and poser critter maker... if I were going to make a poser model, I guarantee I would make it so it wears one of the currently standard model's clothes and also would take accept the textures for said model. This, imho..was where dina failed. She should have been designed to be compatible. and Id most assuredly fight if someone said I couldnt do that..to the last dollar, to the last breath. however, I have no desire to make human models. I can only stand so many nude breasts and butts in the various galleries and as for the post about cl owning formats...thats another thing Id have to question. I HAVE a program that I have written that can make a full cr2 without poser EVER seeing it. While the model still needs poser to work, it does what poser does not..ie, proper joint setup upon creation. and CL, if you read this..I'd be fully, 100%, unquestionably willing to tell you how I did it so you can do it for poser5! I would not ask for compensation nor would I smack you with credits! If I can do it, for god's sake YOU CAN!!! the simple answer is make editable text files that read variables into the program. So if someone doesnt use standard naming practices, by simply editing the text file...they can change the rules. example I have text files that load 'standard' body part names. If the name is not standard, it flags this..if the user wants it to be standard...they edit the text file to include the name. I have text files that read 'expected' parentage. Example: It expects to see either the lCollar, rCollar, lShldr, rShlr as a child for the chest..if it finds it, it automatically makes it such. with these standard names and child relationships, you set 'expected' zones of rotation. ie..the fingers of the hand will most likely need spherical falloff zones to work properly. My program sees them as 'standard names', 'standard parantage' and thus uses the dimensions of that body part and its orientation as determined by the phi and body part vertex coordinates to determine how to apply the red and green spherical falloffs. really, its not that hard! ok, wayyyyy off topic... sorry bout that but as you get older (just had a birthday--36), you tend to ramble...lol BT