Waldo (o?), Not to be as unpleasent as you, but this would appear to be a wholely innapropriate use of this forum. If you have problems with Bryce 5 then you may give said problems a voice here, but if you would like any of us to take you seriously, you should try making a reasoned arguement. I find your remarks as they currently stand to be baseless and inflamatory. I found the upgrades offerred by Corel in Bryce 5 to be lacking, but not unworthy of the price. The only comparable renderer/modeller/animator in this price range is, IIRC, Vue D'Esprit. I find the quality of their renders to be lacking and if you would like plants, you need to fork out another $100. It is nescessary, when a product is bought from another company, to rush development of the first release so that that product will not lose momentum. Take a step back, and a deep breath, and if you sill believe Bryce 5 to be unworthy of your hard earned dollar, don't buy it. Vue is offerring a side-grade deal for Bryce 4 owners. Also, the word is boycott. Something which few of us could participate in at this point, as we already own the program. Sorry to all others for even replying to the above comments.