To use your anaology Ron, inappropriate though it may be. If I walk into a car dealership and state from the get go in the lot on a busy day "I'm not going to buy your cars because they really suck, they just don't go fast enough." I'd expect the guy to point me to another garage down the road and get me off the lot as fast as possible. That's real life Ron, not sucking up to everyone because they might have a buck to spend or because you feel the need to ingratiate yourself. If I walk into that same car lot and purchase a car, and find out it won't go faster than 25 mph, I go back to the car lot, get the manager in an office and bitch at him, but I sure as hell won't do it in his front lot on a busy day, and I don't bitch at the salesman in front of customers. If after a while I find that the guy can't repair the speed problem I'll either demand my money back, or, go to another car dealer who can fix the problem. But I don't bitch about it in his car lot on a busy day or at the salesman in front of his customers. If I find that the second car dealer can't fix the car either then I'll scream at the manufacturer because it's obviously their damn fault that the stupid car won't go. But I don't bitch at the first guy in his front lot on a busy day or at the salesman in front of his customers. So, there you go for real life Ron. My real life, not yours, not anyone elses. Same as your real life is yours, not mine, not anyone elses. But we all have different real lives don't we? As to your customer services comments. Well, I'll agree to disagree with you. It's been my experience with this that if you have a troublesome customer you do everything you possibly can to get them the heck out of the way before they upset other people. You don't slime up to them licking their ass, you deal with them firmly and politely if possible. If they're bitching and shouting and getting antsy in your face you deal with them calmly and try to get them to calm down, if they don't and carry on being a pain in the ass then you ask them to leave. But then, staff as well as customers get fair protection here in the UK and it is the right of any service personnel, staff member or customer service councellor to refuse to serve, talk to or even allow in the building an abusive customer. Yes, over here we can have the itinerant escorted out by security or even arrested. So, people tend to be polite in the main, and when they have a complaint they take it up with the management and follow procedure rather than screaming in a busy store in front of other customers. I won't address any of your other comments because quite frankly I have no desire to get into a bitch fest with you though if you really want the gloves off, it can be arranged. :)