Bloodsong, I'm sure that they do, but isn't that the sort of information you don't want your competitors to have? The developers of these graphics programs may all make assumptions about the market penetration of each other's products but they don't know or have proof of the exact numbers of eager consumers. They can probably purchase secondary information from trade magazines. (You know those subscription surveys where you tell them your job title, your operating system(s) and which programs you use, among other stuff? All that data is tabulated and sold.) However, this is incomplete data: since only the subscribers have filled out the survey, the only real intelligence would be gained from comparisons of the various segments of the user base. I'd be leery of extrapolating that to the market as a whole. It wouldn't include the students or hobbyists, or even all of the magazine's subscribers. Maya is trying to reposition itself from its expensive real estate on the top of the market to more of a mass-market product (according to their own press release). Lightwave and Cinema are also rapidly lowering prices. Probably the last thing CuriousLabs wants is for them to know the exact size of their user base. (Well, maybe not the last thing, but pretty close. ::chuckle::) Carolly