I'm sorry Storm. I don't like either of these two. What I liked about the bottom one, of your last post, is it followed the rules of graphic design: K.I.S.S. (KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!) It was a simplified black design, over a white background. I thought the flames were a definate weakness. But, I neglected to mention it previously. Problem is: your designing a LOGO!!! Your not designing something that will only be used once, then discarded, (I'm assuming). Therefore, it has to be something that will look good over ANY color background, and should look appropriate under almost ANY situation. The logo I mentioned earlier works. You can place it over practically any scene, and it would look like it was made just for THAT specific scene. The two logos above fail. Because, they conflict by being "too busy", distracting from the scene(s) they are supposed to introduce. Using chrome, gold, (or even flames!!!) are just add-ons. They are NOT the basis of good design. Think about it, a sculpture isn't going to be a better piece of artwork ONLY because it's got a really fancy pedistal. If the piece of sculpture sucks, it doesn't matter how fancy the pedistal is, the sculpture will still suck. BUT, in the end, the final choice is ultimately yours.