So we go to the scrollbar, but don't touch it. Instead we click on the area below the scrollbar. Now you see why I had problems with this idea.. Of course it wasn't described in the original message. The "first fold" fundamental is far from BS. I personally practice it myself, and know many others (even some Renderosity members) who share the same attitude. There is also a division between those who fancy themselves wonderful web-psite designers, and those who look at all the bells and whistles as "so much flash without substance." Thank God Renderosity doesn't go that far.