cograats Alderon: tried your material editor method and it works ! but to avoid confusion you should have stated,(in red),0 time 1/4 time 1/2 time 3/4 time and end time in stead of degrees . also the method needs to compensate for the fact that you will be duplicating the first frame at the end. Thanks for the mat method of rotation. I'll try to remember it. I tried my obj method of rotation and found that I needed to go just past 1/2 way point and change the sign of the rotating value and key frame it in order to prevent it going backwards halfway through. Anyway I got both methods to work using obj space and auto key off remembering to keyframe everything in after changing values at the appropriate points.