Wolf, I know what you mean but step back a bit, what Poser comes with is pretty useless now, it's been upgraded several times while we've been waiting for version 5, not by Curious and not entirely by Daz either. It's the community that's created the up-to-date stuff, that much we agree on but I can't see how you can give any credit to the makers of Poser for this. They've just sat back creating "pooh ware ornamentals" to quote Petunia. What I'm saying is that Poser's got a sister application and boy, has she grown up!