Chicky cutes and fairy boobs! Where? where? No but seriously - the thing is you see, Poser isn't exclusive enough - it's not expensive, see. C4D, Maya and Max and all that - that's big money and then you're so cool, so you can look down your nose at those lowly Poser jerks. This does NOT apply to all users of those apps of course - we have lots of them right here, real nice people. There is one thing about Poser though - the thing they cn always go on about when they find fault, namely the lack of a decent rendering engine in Poser 4. But I have a feeling Poser 5 is going to change all that. Hope so. Also, the prices of the high end apps are dropping at stellar speed, so soon they won't be so exclusive. Also, I know lots of people who work with HTML and the like who poo-poo anyne who uses even a decent app like Dreamweaver - that's cheating, you're supposed to code by hand, see. Elitism by definition is the exclusion of the vast majority by putting up a set of arbitrary rules by which to judge. Applies equally well to art, music, cars, programming, boating, clothes, houses, sports..... you name it. The label on the baseball cap you wear - I MEAN, that's important! Geez, you haven't got a clue! Regardless of what I know, think, am good at, etc.... I'm about as un-elitist as they come. Since I think it's so goddamn stupid. :] FishNose