Did not read each and every post of this thread...but did try to follow the "Poser alienation" theme.Maybe in the long run of things it is up to the Poser community to stir up greater interest in that area within the Animotions community. I know Jack was working over at 'rotica to get a cross over between Poser and KiSSme, maybe that will actually happen at the new site. I hang out at the Poser newsgroup quite a bit and notice that there is a lot of cross posting between the Poser ng and other 3d groups such as Bryce, etc. Did I confuse the issue? Not sure, but I think the point I am trying to make is the more diversivied art communities we have the greater our learning opportunities increase if we participate.