cool! well, lee, i just followed the typical figure creation procedure. actually, the norn is going to be featured in my poser figure creation book as a sample/practice figure. if you mean how i actually modelled it; i used lightwave.... there's some preview pics over at the 3d commune character creators forum. look for 'the norn that explains it all' thread. lee, i'm still working on how to use the bbn and poser to create sprite files for new breeds. if you can help out there, that'd be great! i did a test animation of the right forearm, and it worked out fairly well, except for the end of the elbow (especially the hole when other body parts are turned invisible), and the fact that the sprite editor read all the frames upside down and backwards. blueberry is sweet :) she looks like a she. and whaddya mean the norn should wear pants in public, sabrina? YOU aren't! ;D actually, hauks, you started a new thread in response to that thread, to explain the history of the geats and everything. i just can't remember what you called it. :)