This sucks. I wrote a comprehensive response to this thread, and it was dumped again due to some glitch. I'll make it brief this time. Doug & Jackson, you failed to recognize the evidence that was presented to you. There is such a lack of sifnificant information in the Poser manual that it is useless to so many people. This is not our fault or blame, but the blame or fault of the writers, or the company that paid them. Heck, even the tutorial stinks. I'm sorry you don't like "hand-holding," but it is one of the major draws of the Renderosity community. I thank Renderosity for finally helping me to begin learning Poser when it had sat on my shelf for 4-5 years, and had remained a mystery to me. *** A good manual requires more than someone who knows the softweare intimately. It requires a good writer, and one who knows the audience. A good manual writer assumes the reader doesn't know the program at all.. A good manual writer uses good comprehensive language, and isn't afraid to illustrate information every step of the way. A good manual writer would read his/her own work, and actually see if it makes sense. This would of course require "pretending" to be someone else. *** I'm encouraged by all the others who feel the way I do about the Poser manual. I also appreciate all the support I've received. I'll continue to do what I can to learn as well as help others learn. And yes, I can know something and learn at the same time!!! Ron