Oh sod it, before the sycophants get in - of course Poser 5 exists, I'm just pissed off because I haven't seen it yet! and from what we've been told it's going to be an amazing upgrade, whther it adds anything to the animators arsenal remains to be seen, we might get a few crumbs but the improved renderer will be welcome. Personally, there are two apps that interest me at the moment, Discreet's Plasma - seems this will be able to export morph targets to w3d format; and Carrara 2, yes it can import Daz figures but sounds like you'll have to bone them yourself. Neither of these have demos available until the end of June....