psychobud, I know it's faster with the programs mentioned above but essentially what I described is all those programs are doing anyway, they just automate the process. My point was that you don't NEED those programs to do it. Sure it takes a bit longer but after reading everything you have to tell Suzanna I don't think it'll take much longer and personally I think I have more control over things doing it manually. To make a 1 second .avi took me maybe 2 hours and that was the whole process not counting post production. The above programs only render the animation, they don't add sound etc. to the avi file. BTW I'm not talking about frame by frame animating, you create the animation in Poser then render frame by frame in Bryce instead of the usual way of letting Bryce render all the frames of the animation. I'm not saying this is better than Natural Pose or Suzanna (though I think I have more control of some things in Bryce versus the autmation) I'm just saying it can be done without the programs and I beleive some people like me were lead to beleive it was impossible without them.