to tjohn: You had it easy... grin. When I started to play with micros you had to build them yourself and I don't mean just connecting boards together and sticking them in a box. If you wanted softare you learned to program. A k of ram (yes a k, not a meg) cost $400 Canadian and that isn't allowing for currency inflation over last 25 years. I rather think I prefer the status quo today. to ariannah: Welcome aboard- you have now sold your soul to addiction... If you haven't already been there be sure to drop by http://www.petersharpe.com/Tutorials.htm for a nice array of tutorials in pdf format. If you have a few spare dollars be sure to get Susan Kitchen's Real World Bryce4 book. It still has a lot to offer B5 users.