My Vickybuster texture is for non-commercial use because it is based on a Staale Loseth texture and he asks that his textures be used in non-commercial works. Can't say I blame him either, since parts of his textures seem to end up in a Marketplace texture every month or so anyway. My light sets and seam guides are OK for use in commercial renders, although I half-jokingly asked in one of the seam guide readmes that if you use it to create a commercial texture, I'd really like to have a copy. 14841 downloads of my seam guides and I've received 3 textures from people...wahooo :) Next time I get the urge to share anything, I'll make sure it's suitable for commercial use...and if it can't be, I'll simply send it to those who are still thankful to get anything for free and don't always need to have the option to make money with it. SnowS

Chuck, Your guy who gave his old lawnmower away didn't build the lawnmower. He didn't spend a week just getting the axles to turn properly and 3 or more weeks fussing over the paint job. He has no emotional involvement with that lawnmower. (Well, if he does, he has problems outside my ability to explain.) Art is different. We put pieces of ourselves out there. Look at the pride people take when they reveal their first prop or hesitating steps at modeling hair. This isn't just a job even for those of us who are full-time artists. There is something more at stake. Carolly

hauksdottir I agree with all you have said. Actually I had written something along those lines but much longer about that there lawn mower. You jsut beat me to it. Kendra.. What is the difference with people puting restrictions on their free downloads here and you doing the same with the web sets you have at yoiur site for download.. I see none please enlighten me. Poppi.. Why not share 'freely' some of those things you keep telling us you make yourself. Helen Who puts no restrictions on her download here but respects the right of those who choose to.

jsut = just yoiur = your Helen

waves hands and jumps up and down Me! Me! Send it to me, Snow! ;] whoulps Ahem. Well, there went my professionalism, shot all to hell. grin "And as long as I mentioned it, and since I don't seem to understand, would someone please explain to my the reason(s) they have for restricting it? " I can think of a number of reasons, Chuck. Snow mentioned one... it may be a derivative work based on someone elses design who doesn't mind if it's altered and given for free, but they DO mind if it's used for profit. 2) Fan art. I can make any numer of comics characters, gaming inspired characters etc for poser, do renders of them as "fan fic", and post the poser versions at the 3D-CC, and the odds are real good that Marvel, DC, Image, Id and/or Eidos isn't going to care - as long as I'm not making money with their creations or lisencing them for other people to do so. If you DL a Spiderman character from animotions and make "Spidey Memorabilia" images with it, open up a web site and start selling them without the permission of Marvel Comics to do merchandise for profit with their lisenced trademark and lisenced character... Marvel WILL have their lawyer send you a cease and desist. Likewise for Lara Croft, Spawn or other similar things. THAT's why the "no commercial use" on those, including renders. For me or Doug Sturk to make them and provide them as freebies for personal use is fan art, and it's a labor of love on our part. He likes making superhereos, I like making Wing Commander starships. If we post them, it's to share them with other people who'll appreciate them and enjoy them... not for someone to turn a buck making spiderman memorabilia, or wing commander artwork for T-Shirts to sell. 3) Anime and movie based/inspired characters fall under the same heading. In a lot of cases, you can't use them commercially because they're lisenced - the "No commercial use" restriction is to cover ME legally. I have a deep aversion to lawsuits, can't speak for anyone else. In the case of the Japanese models and anime/characters, there is also the issue of "face" as hauksdottir mentioned. I respect that. I come from a culture, on one side of my family, that takes points of honor with deadly seriousness. Except through absolute ignorace, I wouldn't trample on someone elses notions of honor - like Billy-t's for instance - if I could avoid it. I wouldn't want him to do it to me. Or SnowSultan or Traveler or a lot of other people I respect. Simple courtesy - I choose to not do to you the things I would prefer to not do to me. 4) Personal prefference: We have a character set in freestuff now that has 13,000+ downloads here, and over 25,000 total downloads at the various sites they've been available. That's a LOT of downloads for one character set. I have ONE restriction in that package, aside from the usual "don't sell or repost them without asking". That restriction is simple: NO hard core pornographic imagery or animations etc done with them for posting. Softcore, centerfolds, nude studies, do commercial renders with them... no problems. But no hardcore or bondage or torture mutilation stuff, please. Why? Simple... I learned poser making those characters. I learned morph design doing the faces and the body sculpting on them. I spent almost a year learning the ins and outs of poser 4, magnets, fitting clothing to non standard figures, and matching textures to a character on them. When I was finally happy enough with it to move on, I decided to post them for other people to enjoy. They're not the best mayhaps - definately not the best I can do NOW - but they were the best I had to offer at the time. Any writer in the crowd is going to understand what I'm saying here: you sink that much time and effort into a character, and it becomes a part of you. Doesn't matter if you can do better later, that character is still a part of you with it's own personality and quirks, just like Lee Alverson's Ionne or his twin probably are to him. Hence the one restriction - it may sound silly, but it'd be like giving someone a lisence for abusing my kid to not put that restriction there. But it doesn't sound silly to me. My work, my right to do so. And anyone who knows me respects that choice, anyone who doesn't I don't care about. Dunno. I'm seeing a recurring theme in every example I come up with. Simple courtesy. If it's their work, and they choose to put the restriction on it, well... it's their work and it's simple courtesy for me to respect it. And it just doesn't cost that much to respect someone elses boundaries. shrug The stores are filled with items that can be used without commercial render clauses. And if I have a client that I need to do a render for, as a proffessional, I can ask someone to design an item if needs be and pay for it, and charge that back to the client. That's the way the business works, and clients who are worth working for expect to have tools and materials factored into the cost of the work - they generally understand that a freelance artist is also a business person. If I need a fantasy gown for a project and there's not one available, I can set my fee to cover than and sub contract Styxx to make me one. That's the way graphics studios do business. Freestuff on the other hand is a labor of love, ultimately, and generosity. And it's NOT a "free" one - bandwidth costs money. Hosting items for downloads cost money. Websites cost money. Someone who posts freebies for us to download is generally PAYING for the priveledge of sharing their work, and the dubious priveledge of having people complain about the lisencing agreements. The fact that some poeple like Traveler, April, Helen, Snow, FastTraxx, Nikita, Caligula and many, many, many others continue to eat the cost for giving away things just because they enjoy it inclines me to do a lot of things, but bitching if they put in a restriction isn't one of them. Ya'll can suit yerselves, natch.

"who've ever even SOLD a Poser render" I've sold several.

"will have the restriction that it is not restricted for people who don't restrict their stuff and restricted for people who do." ROTFLOL

BTW, my stance that FREE ITEMS should be allowed for commercial use is NOT arguing that I should be able to do it against the creator's will. I take great pains to avoid copyright infringement, etc., and I agree that you cannot use trademarked items for commercial use for fan art, i.e I do not think I should be able to create Star Wars fan art TO SELL, UNLESS I have permission from LucasArts.

Heh heh. Wasn't aiming at you, Talmid. Since it was asked "why?" on the restrictions, was just numbering off several that came into my head on the whys. ;]

=-) And all those were good reasons too! My contention is on items that spawned from your own brain, or are virtually public domain, i.e. items that no one has a copyright/trademark on, etc.

I will, hoever bring up another issue, lets say I create an accurate Lamborghini in Lightwave. Can I sell that model? Can I use it in commercial renders? My answer: Not without permission from the Lamborghini company. Why? Because it is THEIR design. Or howa bout this? I virtually replicate a character from a recent popular movie, can I sell it? Again, I say no, yet I have seen both examples been done.

These are potential issues that need to be addressed. I won't sell my gamepak until Nintendo gives me approval, even though it is not 100% a replica, the question is: Is it substantially similar?

So, despite my position that free stuff should be free, it doesn't mean I disregard copyrights.

Carolly, why not get your facts straight?! 3D Commune was never forced to ban anyone. They chose to do so after an ungrateful person attacked me for providing yet another freebie. I responded that my feelings were hurt, and things escalated from there. That is especially ironic considering this conversation.

i don't know why freestuff donators are so unhappy here. there are loads of threads with thankyous and youkeepthiscommunityalives and i took part in not few of them. and, as someone said, in 99,999 % permission is given, then what is the point in asking? as soon as someone announce that he's giving something free in freestuff there are at least 10 people (depending on quality of the item) who respond directly and thank him/her for it. snowsultan is the only one who gave a reason why some of his stuff are only for non commercial use, and i understand it and except it. the trouble is that commercial and and non commercial is not that easy to distinguish. if you do a picture with a brand new free-but-only-for-nc-work texture and show it in your gallery here, then lucas arts sees this and hire you because that was such a great picture, then you definitely made money with it. now, i know that lucas art people seldomly look in renderosity's gallery, but that was just an example :). my point is that self-promotion is also commercial! hauksdottir: "If you are going to be paid for your work, you had best create everything in that rendered image or buy the usage rights for items created by others." if you make a denim texture for a jeans and scan it from the original jeans, are aou making a copyright infringement, because those jeans have their specific design? following your argumentation, you do! you are making an image of something that already exists, same as an (rendered) image of a 3d-object. hauksdottir: "So, folks, GROW UP! You can't just take, take, take, take everything you want, and then bitch, whine, moan, and yammer while refusing to respect the rights of the artist who is willing to share for the joy of sharing." if you are really doing it for the joy of sharing, then what's the problem? if you see that download count has reached the thousands, then be joyfull! or do you want as many "thank yous"?

I like freestuff, it's fun. Seems to me.....way back when....didn't freestuff used to be called Funstuff? Maybe that is what should be changed..... Made for fun, not profit. And let the minority commercial-use-ok stipulate on their free things...that commercial use is ok. I don't trash any of my lovely free things that I have collected because of the non-comercial clause because it would be a bloody miracle if anything I made with it ever sold. And I suspect not everybody here is looking to sell their pictures either. Renaming Freestuff to Funstuff would be easy for people who don't understand the concept that 'free' does not mean free. If it's not really free, then don't call it free. Sasha :)

"Kendra..
What is the difference with people puting restrictions on their free downloads here and you doing the same with the web sets you have at yoiur site for download..
I see none please enlighten me."

Easy, I've done all the work. The graphics, the design, the html (hand coded), the testing. All someone has to do is unzip, upload and they have a decorated website. While I will have spent a considerably longer amount of time depending on the design. Basically, they are getting a finished product with no work of their own.

A render is quite different. One texture or mesh does not a completed product make. This is why I don't feel I should restrict anything I offer here for free. It's like offering someone a brush to paint with.

Enlightened? :)

Wow...I can't believe I read the whole thing!

First, I'll think I'll just say "great post Ironbear!", and ignore the rest of it.

As for the topic of defaults, I think it would be better if it was blank for both things. Look at freestuff right now...everything says stand alone and for non-commercial use except for the brand new stuff and the things people have taken the time to change. Some people are never going to show up to change it, or are too lazy to bother doing so. So much for accurate search results.

If something has to be a default and it can't be blank, I prefer default being non-commercial simply because when I see something that says "commercial use" I know they are still active and took the time to provide accurate information. Otherwise, there's going to be tons of stuff that says its for commercial use but isn't.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't recall ever download something without realizing I needed to own something else first so that flag isn't too important to me. Having the notes viewable is nice though. Always wondered why you could enter them but they didn't show up anywhere.

I think some of this has gone way into the realm of modifying meshes and all that. All along I'm assuming that commercial usage means commercial renders (still or animated). I don't think that it means chopping up or repackaging it, or what-have-you. Maybe that's unclear from the get go. I also think its just common sense to not use a trademarked item in a commercial endeavor without the blessing of coca-cola (tm), for example. Ironbear, I completely agree with all the points you mentioned. 2 and 3 would be common knowledge to me (hehe, you started numbering with 2). 4 as presented is commercial-usage friendly (renders) with some terms (no hardcore, etc, which I would find completely acceptable). And if I used your character pack, I would drop you a line to say "thanks, and if you're curious here's the project it's in..."

Kendra "Easy, I've done all the work. The graphics, the design, the html (hand coded), the testing. All someone has to do is unzip, upload and they have a decorated website. While I will have spent a considerably longer amount of time depending on the design. Basically, they are getting a finished product with no work of their own." Lets expand on this.. "Easy, I've done all the work. The graphics, the design, the html (hand coded), the testing. All someone has to do is unzip, upload and they have a decorated website." You have created the shell for the content. Your set does not the site make. Yes it adds to its ambience its feel.. Much like someones free download from here may add to your finished artwork. The graphics - dito the free download from here The design - dito the free download from here The html (hand coded)- dito the free download from here The testing - dito the free download from here Your set is only 'part' of the web site as a whole. Folks add content, their touches, additions. They expand on your 'free' download. "While I will have spent a considerably longer amount of time depending on the design." I don't think you really have any concept of how much work goes into to creating some of the things that are offered for free. Particulary meshes. I can assure you often much, much longer than it takes to make a web set. Having done both I speak from experience. 'All someone has to do is unzip, upload and they have a decorated website." Now you know this is not so... As I stated earlier. They have a shell. As often seen on sites a 'template' on which to build. Your Web Set as the Download from here. Just part of the whole. As I said before. No difference. Helen :)

Okay, don't hit me if this is asking the earth, but I've been reading this thread and stressing out. Although the end of the world is likely to happen before I even try to sell stuff, what happens if I do? I have downloaded a few items, but cannot remember where they came from or what the file with the readme in is called, some of the downloaded zip names are obscure! In a years time if I used one I might not even be able find it again to see if it was supposed to have restrictions. What I was wondering is this, would it be possible to put a little sign in the thumbnail that shows up in your poser library so that people could see whether an item had restrictions on it without having to search for readme files which they may have lost? As long as everyone would agree to a standard then it would make it so much easier to know that you had to ask permission or whatever to use the item. Even if it turned up as a small object in the poser scene it could be deleted from there and not interfere with a persons work surely? Ps to ALL of you who do put stuff in the freestuff section both here and in other places THANK YOU SO MUCH. I am still learning how to use poser and as I have a very low income I have been able to experiment and be inspired by all the wonderful things you people put in there. My own personal interest is in making models of antique furniture and clocks.(I am a restorer IRL) When I finally get to grips with it, if anyone is interested I will put them in free stuff and feel I am returning the favour you guys have done me (don't hold your breath though, making moving parts is going to take me a very long time!)

Darn, I think my reply got eaten. Bracka-frazzin' stupid... Anyway, I guess I'll try again. This string has had so many additions overnight, I can't read them all. I'm sorry, but my eyes will fall out. So, I'm just going to answer why I restrict, why I want to be asked even though I allow it 99.9999% of the time, and the lawnmower thing. Why I restrict? 1) A line I found in one of my older freebies readme sums it up pretty well. "Ya got for free, so give for free. It keeps the community healthy." A year ago, I was a poor college student who got Poser through a GREAT 4-program package deal at her univerisity bookstore. I love the art, but I couldn't afford to buy anythign else with it. The freebies were a godsend. I wouldn't have been able to do very much at all without them. My reason for making freebies is to help people in that situation, who are hobbyists who love the art, but don't have it paying for itself much less turning a profit. I'm not doing it to subsidize someone else's career. Maybe that's selfish of me, but that's my reasons and those are the consequences. 2) In many (2/3 at the moment) of my freebies, I don't have the right to allow commercial usage. "Chinderwear" is copyright Best Brains, Inc. The sitable tunic is based off of one of Gary Crowfoot's meshes, and he gave me permission to distribute it for free, for non-commercial usage. If you want to use either of those commercially, you have to ask those people, not me. I don't care; they're not mine to give. If I allow commercial usage 99.9999% of the time, why do I even want people to ask permission? 1) Maybe this is selfish, but I'd like to know. It gives me a chance to offer my congratulations, and ask if there's any changes I could make that would make the freebie even more useful to others. 2) That other 0.0001%. My religious beliefs do not allow me to help someone make money at or with certain activities. This screening may not be foolproof, but it gives me some influence, and recourse if they are used. Without this option, I would not be able to offer them at all, and I rather have them available for the other 99.9999%. If your neighbor gives you a lawnmower, what business is it of his if you use it to make money? What if his religion does not allow gifts to be used to make money? Now, what if his organized religion does, but his personal religious beliefs do not? Now, what if he just doesn't want to you, and that's his condition for offering the lawnmower? Where's the line drawn? Is there a line? I very much respect those who do not download or keep non-commercial-use only downloads to avoid using them by accident. I think that's a very mature attitude. I also think the flags are a great idea, because it saves your time and my bandwidth. What I do not respect is the small minority who insults me for putting those restrictions on my offerings, and the even smaller minority who ignore my wishes entirely.

Helen....If someone will host it...I will gladly upload something, either this evening, or tomorrow. I've been sorting through my little stuffies this morning, trying to decide just what. (And, it will be free of restrictions, except for the resale part.) FyreSpyrit....I haven't tried your joint setter, but it looks cool. If i were to use it for saleable items, would that be okay? I think folks LIKE to dream of selling a render. I don't think too many simply aspire to uploading to the renderosity gallery, and, nothing more. Oh, well, maybe, the Hot 20....wanna discuss it? Pop...Pop...Poppi who is running late, as usual.

I can see a lot of good points from both sides of this argument. If a free-stuff item was repackaged and sold, that is clearly a no-no. No one wants to see his or her hard work stolen and used as a moneymaker for someone else. But unless a free-stuff item is the only object featured in a render, AND that object is being claimed by the artist as his or her own creation, the copyright of the object's original creator is not being infringed upon. I don't take a picture of a building, then call the architect and ask if I can sell that picture. Did I spend millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours designing and building that structure? No. But the architect didn't spend the time to wait for the light to hit the building just right, nor find the perfect spot to create the most dramatic angle for the shot. The building and the concept of its creation belong to the ARCHETECT. The photo and the concept of the setup capturing that building belong to the ARTIST. Using Poser is like using a camera. The artist might not own the world or the objects in the render, but the artist does own the picture. My free stuff is marked as commercially free because that has become the law of the land in Renderosity. But while I may create the morphs, characters or objects that are given away, I am not creating the final render that they are part of, and have no claim over that piece of art. Besides, the sale of a picture in something like an artshow isn't going to steal anyone's thunder, nor make the artist rich. It will, however, give that artist inspiration to continue to work and give him or her a little pocket money that can be used to help keep the craft alive. Y'all do what ya gotta do to maintain peace-of-mind... but please think about my point before crying "thief!" about someone else's artistic composition.

Poppi, absolutely you can use the joint setters for saleable items. You don't even need to ask. Feel free to give me a free copy, though. (You don't have to, it'll just make Fyre-chan bouncy-happy for several days, and get my butt in gear if you have any favors to ask. ^_~) If you run into any problems, contact me and I'll do what I can to help.

Many commercial projects require that you have the rights to the models rendered.

If the model creator's terms don't give that right, it can't be used in commercial work.

Should artists profit from items gotten for free??

Great....What i did was create a new character, whose body shape I like a whole bunch. Then, i went about creating some clothing for her....I am planning on selling the clothing...plus some stuff i made for mike, that needs a little fix up, those....because of what i got from existing cr2s. thank you. i hope to play with it this evening. i will let you know how it works on the romantic shirt i made for michael...it is long, and that is where i am having a problem....the hip/buttock region. if it works, i will upload that to freestuff. if it doesn't...well, i guess i will upload my little character, and, one of her clothing articles....i want her to have everything from lingerie, to a long formal, to slacks....

This topic comes up every so often. In a previous thread, someone consulted a lawyer who said that IHO any picture posted here is arguably "commercial use". You may not be selling it, but by posting it publicly you are advertising your ability and increasing your commercial worth. My free stuff (not at this site) is free. If you can advance your career by using it, I'm happy for you. It's a present. You can do what you like with it, and that includes passing the zip file on to someone else so that they can enjoy it too. The only thing I ask is that is the user doesn't try to sell my meshes or pass them off as his own work. And that's only sensible, because anyone who does that always gets found out pretty quickly with bad consequences.

Even in America freedom comes with certain rights and responsibilities. One of those responsibilities would be to abide by the laws of your country. If a creator wants to give out free items, for whatever reason, and to put restrictions on it's use then, I think, that is their right. I am extremely grateful to those like Jim, et al, who put no restrictions on use of their free stuff, but if they were to put restrictions on them then that's their right. I think most people who are upset about this are the ones who have already downloaded items only to find that they are for non-commercial use. Anyone posting should specify on the notes page and those downloading should read it first.

Tks, IronBear for spending time to answer and explain. With the exception of your item (4)-Personal Preference, I would have to say you have just about stated the obvious. Tho I am not near as talented as most every person in R'City, I do understand the prohibitions on using items based on Coke/Pepsi/Star Wars/comic-based characters, etc. I would disagree on the anime concerns(to a degree) since anime has become a genre. Otherwise, Aiko would be for personal use only. In closing comments to you, I fully understand your lengthy explanation of the love of the char you made and your restriction on it. My remark, however, wasn't dealing with restrictions on those kinds of things. What I didn't understand was restrictions on a table/bookcase/basketball/straw, etc. Common items like that. At the risk of being "pounced on" more than I already have been, I'll say what I think others may be reluctant to say...it's as if people give away some stuff free because they are generous, but not so generous as to allow someone to make money from a render using their "freebie". So, forgetting the Superman chars, the Bud beer bottles, etc., I ask once again, why should someone restrict the use of a pose they made and gave away? Or a pitchfork? Or a flower? Fyre: I appreciate your time, but my analogy was just a bit more common and believable than yours. I've had discussions with lots of people (both here and IRL) and heard plenty of people resort to using outlandish "what-ifs" to try and prove a point when the discussion should really stick to the practical, the probable, and the common examples. I mean, REALLY, just how many people are there out there whose religion would not allow a gift to be used to make money? Applying that to people who restrict "freebies", how many do so based on religion? JeffH: What is wrong with someone profitting from an item given away for FREE? Is that somehow wrong? It certainly doesn't bother some people who give it away for free (in the true meaning of the word). To give a real-world analogy, meaning one that is commonplace and not farfetched, I have put items out for trash in Germany. In Germany, people come by on those special designated days and browse through it on the streetside. They take stuff home and fix it up a bit and sell it. Should I get upset because they got something free and made money off it? After all, by placing it on the street, I gave it away free. In closing, once again (this message...grin), my discussions and questions do NOT indicate and should not indicate I am some sort of pirate. Even my 4 pathetic renders specify everything that I used (usually in more detail than average). Even with a kudo here and there. Also, should hell freeze over and I find myself ever selling anything (meaning about 90,000 members of R'City would have to drop off the face of the earth, I would (1), contact any person whose completely free item I used just to let them know (and make them feel good) and/or (2) contact any person whose item was restricted and request permission to sell a render using their item. Assuming I can locate them, of course. Oh, and one last item for FryeSpiryt: It only takes a few of those loonnnnggggg replys getting "zapped" by R'City before you start to press Ctrl-A and Ctrl-C before posting...grin. (just like I am glad I did with this one...hehe)

"Your set is only 'part' of the web site as a whole.
Folks add content, their touches, additions.
They expand on your 'free' download."

A decent design can make or break a site. You should know that. :) Commercial sites are commercial from the get-go. Most people here are hobbyists. Some sell images they create, some work in the industry. Most of the time, someone will download a free item without anything clear in mind.

"I don't think you really have any concept of how much work goes into to creating some of the things that are offered for free. Particulary meshes. I can assure you often much, much longer than it takes to make a web set. Having done both I speak from experience."

I may not have much up in the way of freestuff but I do have some idea. I've played with mesh's and there's a reason I don't do them right now. :)

I don't care if people restrict or not. It's their right an I'm not telling them they shouldn't. Some stuff I completely understand. Some don't make a lot of sense such as textures for items that have to be purchased. (IMO)
And I resent the fact that someone who restricts their stuff download and use non-restricted stuff. Yet they'll complain about gratitude.

Another reason to have terms for linkware... every teenager and her little sister now have websites. It's pretty easy to put up a site on Geocities with a set nice and coded and ready for Brad Pitts picture. To use anything here, a person will have invested time and money and effort into one or more programs. Setting linkware free has more potential for abuse and theft than something here in free stuff that requires considerably more.

<<Applying that to people who restrict "freebies", how many do so based on religion?>> I do. So that's one. If I'm the only one, that's fine, but I'm not backing down. Not everyone would even call it "religious", but many people have deeply held personal beliefs that affect how they want their work used (or perhaps more accurately, not used), and that's their right. That means some of them may not want others to profit using their work, and that's their right too. Maybe we're not as generous as someone who puts up their stuff with no restrictions, but I think it's pretty nice to put up anything at all. We don't have to. Many people don't, and every time this conversation comes up I think it'd be easier not to. But many things in life worth doing are not easy. So, I guess it's coming down the the question of whether we're all just going to admit that we're not going to change each other's minds, move on, and go back to avoiding, sorting, or whatever else you do with freebies to keep track of what can be used where. I can promise you that I won't back down on my stuff. I come from a LONG line of stubborn Irish women; I can refuse longer than you can argue. (Heck, if you think I'm a bitch, you should meet my Grandmama. ^_~)

Ugh. What was supposed to be in the brackets up there was "Applying that to people who restrict "freebies", how many do so based on religion?"

Unless my post(s) got misconstrued, I was NEVER asking anyone to change how they gave their stuff away. I was only asking why would so many common items be restricted. That was my dilemma. I've received some answers, some of which stated the obvious. And yours, Fyre, which is the apogee of what I had dared to state above. If I had any talent at all, and could make, say, a pair of gambling dice, I'd darn sure post it completely free. And if one day, someone came up to me and said they had made $5,000 using it (kinda farfetched, I know, but no matter the amount), I'd be happy for them...and perhaps search my soul and ask myself why I couldn't have done the same thing. But the possibility of someone making money from anything I give away bothers me not in the least. I only asked because the concept of giving something away, but not not wanting anyone to make any money from it, seemed alien to me. On a different topic, my dad immigrated to the US from Wales, maybe another reason we don't see eye-to-eye...grin.

I always thought that the main reason for the commerical restrictions was a secret thought that people had- that Stephen Speilburg (or somebody) would see their Posette texture, and think it was just the ticket for the next Star Wars movie, and send them a check with a whole bunch of zeros in it... But that has nothing to do with it. Let's put this on real simple terms: I make Free Stuff available to promote my products, and a gift to my many loyal current and future customers. I'm currently #9 on the "Top Contibutor" list here, incidently. I'm slightly P.O.ed that Renderosity put "Non-commericial use only" on my Free Stuff. Sure I can change it, but why should I have to? My stuff has never had that kind of restriction. While I'm P.O.ed I'm not going to put any more Free Stuff up, like this gown I found laying around in my old files... I'll put it up someplace else, instead.

Well, hopefully I don't get the blame for your decision, Jim. :(

Thanks SciFi. ;] Heh heh. Nether.. I started numbering at 2) becuase my fingers ran away with me and I included 1) in the paragraph above it. And I'm lazy. And numerically challenged. grin Talmid - yes on the Lahmborghini model. AS LONG AS you DO NOT include the lamborghini trademark, their logotype, logo, or any of their trademarked symbols on the model etc. As a rule of thumb, on cross-media itms [auto to mesh, gun to mesh, whathaveyou] that's going to hold true. Also as a rule of thumb, if in doubt, write them and ask. Write not email... with a letter and a physical letter in response, you have something for your files to show that "Yes I have permission" or "Yes they wrote back and said we don't care". Automobiles I know about - I used to work for a company in Dallas that made commemorative plaques for colectors cars and exotic cars. The plaque was always acceptable with image or ethced glass representation, or model, but the manufacturers name, logo, logotype, and trademarked symbols had to have permission obtained on each and every make and model. Firearms I know about because Questor and I are involved in a project to track down and model every firearm in the universe and put them in freestuff. grin And Questor has written, phoned or emailed numerous firearms makers asking just those questions and recieved similar answers from many of them, including Walther, Skmith and Wesson, and Winchester. [I believe] You can ask him on specifics. Ah. Sorry Chuck. Gots carried away. g Seriously... reasons for doing it are probably as individual as the number of people posting freebies. Me - I don't put restrictions commercial render use on mine, or on my joint projects with Esh and Styxx. Readmes on my freestuff are generally identical to the ones in my sale items: You just bought the rights to use it in personal or commercial renders, just don't redistribute it, repackage it, repost it or resell it. Keeps it simple for me. Special case conditions are going to be very rare for me. I seriously doubt I'll add many special case clauses like I did on DangerousCurves. Heya Jim.... really can't say much on that. To me, Rosity, 3Dc, 3DArena and Renderotica provide a location for me to post stuff so that people can find it and download it if they wish. It's up to me, as I see it, to make sure the links work, the thumbnails work, that I upload it in the right section, add whatever keywords are needed, and basically do the upkeep such as check the links periodically - including reset tags if they add new categories or terms. As long as I wish to offer it in their freestuff. I will [and have] bitched about a lot of things here, but bitching about them not doing my job for me is one I'll never do. And upkeep on my freebies [and my sales items] is my job, not theirs. Sorry you feel different. I'll miss seeing your freestuff around here.

I haven't read everything said here but I see a freebie as a gift from the person who makes it, by that I mean they are kindly making something and saying "here you can play with this just don't try to make money with it". A simple email to the maker of the freebie is all that's needed to hopefully get their permission to use it in commercial projects. I'm really greatful to all the people who have made freebies available for me to download, Thank you all. Rob

Gee, you guys are O.K.! The gown is in Free Stuff, too!