Jack, Please don't consider any of the animus of my message to be directed at you personally. Like I said, I've never had a problem with you on any level, but there are things that need saying, and for x2k and myself, no one else seems willing to say them, which puts us ( and poppi to a great extent ) in a very tough position. We were all once friends of Mehndi's to either a greater or lesser extent. The fact that the three of us have each, in turn, been used or betrayed in a similar fashion, while the person who has done so continually pulls more support from those who cannot see past the illusion of benevolence to the ulterior beneath, is frustrating to say the least. It leaves you with a sense of saying, "How can people be so stupid t ojust not see?" The fact is, most don't want to see. Sure it does little good to flame away, but some days it takes the sting of knowing you've been manipulated and softens it just enough to make you feel better. So what does this thread accomplish beyond the so many others? Nothing. We have regurgitated the same points, rehashed the same memories, and spit the same venom, and it means just a little bit less the more we carry on.... Paul