Taking Ron's example for a moment because it's a perfectly valid one. If I can use a similar example of this kind of nonsense? TSR. They decided they didn't want hundreds of fan websites offering rules and all the other things that come with that so they tied up the legalese so nobody could produce a fan website for AD&D. Unfortunately, that also meant they couldn't do it. Daz are, if they continue with this, going to drive themselves into the same corner with the stupid stick as TSR did. I understand they're trying to protect themselves and protect future sales of their products and future products. Unfortunately this is not the way to do it. Also, forcing people to employ yet ANOTHER damn utility is a PITA. Already to protect copyrights distributers employ PCF and UVS encoding. Now we'll have yet another bloody file to decode before we can use something? Erm.... this is getting beyond a joke and into the realms of daft. What's next? A Mike and Vickie dongle? Can't use the files unless you surrender key parts of your system to a plug in POS that screws with the mouse and modem ports? How about dial back? That's a popular tool. You buy an item and it dials DAZ to ask for permission before it installs? Yeah, that's the answer. Sorry. Not doing it. I would rather make endless nekkid vic in a temple renders than screw around even more than I already have to just to get something to work and I've been using this software for a few years. New users? Oh gods can anyone see the eruption of questions as these poor people get completely bamboozled with all this junk? I have always respected Daz and have got on with them fine over email when I've spoken to them. They've bent over backwards when I've had a problem with their store or just recently over hosting some of my models. Great people every one of them, but it seems to me that these nice people took a running jump at a wall just recently and are dazed and confused. BIGGEST complaint of the year. NO clothes that fit the damn morphs for the Milllenium figures. Not for ANY of them. Mike and Vic 1 have been out for ages and NO clothes that morph. Slowly a few started to arrive that were built over a morph setting. Mike and Vic 2 arrived with loads of new morphs and STILL NO CLOTHING. OK, eventually someone said they were converting the clothing packs and that took months. Tailor arrived and people were happy because they could now morph the clothing that couldn't be used before. NOW, we can't use it, can't use the clothes, can't produce more, can't share the damn things. Well, sorry. Fuck that. This is one of the very few occassions when I honestly and firmly believe that Daz have seriously screwed the pooch. I am not going to bend over and get shafted because I've spent my money on their models and now I'm told I have to spend MORE just to be able to use things in the future that I PAID for in the past. Not going to happen. I'll happily break their request if they force this issue. Free utility from Russ to help people distribute files? Why? Why the hell should people have to jump through even more hoops and go through even more steps and trouble just to use a piece of bloody clothing? And how much of all this bullshit is going to be overruled anyway IF Poser 5 has cloth dynamics built in? Are Daz going to then tell us we can't use Poser 5 because Mike 1 might, maybe, perhaps, could sort of, look like Mike 2 in a body suit? Can anyone see how pathetic this "could" get? It's not often I side with RonKnights, he'll probably be the first to agree with that, but on this issue I think he's actually got some valid points. As for the request for a new model. Female? What about Eve/Azura? Isn't she good enough already? She has the advanced joint parameters of Vickie and it shouldn't be too hard for some of the generous people around to make morphs so she can stand proud against Vic2. We need a guy, not another female. A guy to compete with Mike. Girls we got. Eve/Azura, Dina, DinaV and another I saw mentioned somewhere that I hadn't heard of. So, make a male model, morph the hell out of it. Stick it into public domain if you want and then let's see how much it takes before people take their big words and run with it. I think again Ron said something in another thread that kind sounds more likely than a PD model. We've paid for Vic and Mike and ALL their clothes and add-on packs. A HUGE investment for many people and an expensive one for some who don't have the incomes that are bandied about by certain members. I don't honestly think that anyone will turn away from Vic and Mike and Daz damn well know it. That's what's sad about this whole affair. People are now scurrying around to find a way to pacify Daz and pacify the people who are complaining so we can all have a happy happy joy joy filled forum again. Excuse me if I decide this time I'm going to be a needle on the floor that stabs people in the foot every time they tread on it. I DO feel trodden upon and I will bite back. I don't care what utility is written to pacify the lairds of Poser files, I don't want to have to use it. HAVE to use it being the operative word. FORCED to use it would be more accurate. I would MUCH rather purchase Tailor and support Codetwister than fuck around with god knows how many files how many times just to keep the peace. Right now though I'm not inclined to support anyone. Poser isn't stable enough for me to WANT to spend that much of my time. and I sure as hell don't want to have to go through this whole damn rigmarole every time I have to reinstall poser or I upgrade my system. I back up key parts of my computer. Windows and system areas, system utilities and mail databases. That's all I should HAVE to backup. The possibilities of really screwing the community are present now. The thumb screws are being tightened. Today Mike's body suit, tomorrow a dress suit, the day after, his trousers.... what then? People have already mentioned about combined clothing having the same effect as the body suit. That could be the next stumbling block and I really don't see why any of us should have to waste even more time faffing around with protecting a company's assets when that very company SOLD those assets to us in the first place. If you jump off a cliff and half way down suddenly realise that impacting on the ground below is going to hurt. You can't suddenly change your mind and fly back to the top of the cliff. Daz jumped. Now they realised that the ground IS hard and they might get a tad bruised. Sorry peeps. Tough titty. ----------------------------- Depakotez: Thanks for this effort, it's appreciated, regardless of my words above. It's a shame that you feel it is necessary to do this and that Daz have now forced this situation upon the community. Things were fine before. There are other ways around this and one of them is Daz admitting they screwed up, and living with it. Making sure that next time they don't make the same mistake. In general I see people wanting Mike 2 BECAUSE of his morphs. I don't see people FAKING it by sticking Mike 1 in Mike 2 morphed clothing and pretending he's Mike 2. Mike doesn't have the vast array of head morphs that Mike 2 has and he's not able to make the same or close characters. This is farcical nonsense, and regardless of whether Daz can or cannot legally enforce beans on anyone is immaterial. This is unreasonable of them. They're not gods. They're people, damned nice people, but people all the same, and like people they make mistakes. This is one of those mistakes and there is an easier solution than running around like a headless chicken trying to stop people doing what people haven't been doing. On that. I'm outta here.