no statement from me just wild speculation & wishful thinking, with lightwave & max it seems to me all these wonderful features to do with clothes, gravity & atmospherics is done with plugins, kupa never mentioned plugins for poser, so "maybe" things like that will be built in with poser5. Anyway who cares where the ideas came from if it works I'll be happy & if it doesn't then I'll wait for the patch to make it work. Either way I'm smiling ear to ear & have been since seeing those pictures. Rob