Well, I understand your concerns, Jim, but it seems to me that the release of new software is an occupational hazard for 3rd party modellers. We all knew poser 5 wasn't far off. All Kupa has done is give us a peek under the bonnet with a few images. And please note, that he specifically mentioned a lot of these features, including hair, quite some time ago. Would you prefer to know nothing, go ahead and make hair, then have poser 5 released the next day with no warning whatsoever? That would REALLY suck! At least now you have an idea what to avoid. As far as a release date goes, the most intelligent guess I've heard (and it was only a guess), is sometime after fall and probably in time for Christmas. Despite what Kupa said about cheering up the poser community, I think the fact that Siggraph is coming up had a lot to do with his posting images. He ain't gonna show this stuff to us and not to Siggraph. One other point that comes to mind. There have been a few panic threads concerning the possibility of mass computer seizures due to huge processing requiments for poser 5 hair. Now I think people are jumping the gun, but it does bring up a point. If (IF), the requirements are so outrageous, doesn't it make sense that a lot of people will continue to use poser 4 hair? After all, the poser 2 models were left in poser 4 for that same purpose. mac