okay...the files i was talking about are at www.poserstyle.com. i forgot...thip is very active in that site. and, no...before my lights pop off again...it is not off topic....more, and more folks are getting into "grow your own.."...err..that should be "model your own". just go to poserstyle and you will find a link to both of them....geeze, the fun stuff i do in my off time. :*)