Steve in his post never put any timescales on when poser5 will be released, he just said there's lots of work still to be done, but by who? the main work is almost certainly done or he'd never have shown us those pictures/movies, so possibly all that really remains is for the polish to be applied, pressing the cd's and printing the manuals will take time, maybe that's what they're waiting for to release that poor program into our evil clutches. Rob