heh, I never claimed that the big moeny packages were all that great. I have a few, they have a lot more potential but I dont think their worth what people think they are. And I will agreee that it usually comes down to the rendering. Ever notice that even the expensive packages come with poor renderers? The only one that renders even decent to start with is Softimage, and of course thats because it intigrates mental ray into the package from day one ... I for one find poser to be a wonderful program and use it in conjunction with my work all the time. It is limited in its capabilities, but is worth far mor than most people give it credit for at first glance. I cerainly prefer it to a certain 1000 dollar plugin that doesnt do its job nearly as well .....