terminusnord: Like I said I'm not trying to start an arguement. I know that there are other programs that can do this better, but not for the price, IMHO. I used Lightwave in school (long ago) and had the use of it on a friends system until he moved away. Personally I can't afford that kind of mony for a hobby, much as I liked the program. I create the clothing mesh as a raw out line then skin them to the target figure. The mesh is 100% mine, but the shape is made to fit around the target. Eventually I want to write a tutorial. It's a modification of what thip does in Amapi (there's a tutorial in the Amapi forum). Once I have the basic shape I add vertices by hand until I get a density that I think will "move" well in Poser. This is where I think some other programs may have some better tools, since I think Carrara's 'subdivide" function adds too much to the mesh and "smoothing" function changes the size of the mesh in unpredictable ways. When I was using Lightwave this function seemed to work better. I then use UVMapper Pro to "cut" the model and Poser Pro to set up the bones. UVM Pro also gives the UV map, but I have to admit I'm not much of a texturer. Mostly I use Poser material colors for now. The earlier Mike outfit consists of a jacket, pants and boots. The eplets, medals, and belt are smart props. All of the items but the medals (chest and arms) and the eplets (which were created earlier and re-used for these cloths) were created in Carrara as original mesh and fitted to Mike. Here's a closer screen shot of the outfit I'm making to Vicki. Right now it's in 2 pieces, a shirt and pants (which I'm still working on). I also intend to create a jacket to fit over the shirt and boots. mike