Hi Veth! :-) Thanks for your candid answer-I sense I gave you a good laugh! I am looking forward to seeing your picture-maybe I or someone (you?) might be motivated to make a "real Vethril" character to accompany the Lady Vethril :-) Actually the "other" forum at www.renderotica.com has a few albums of its members up-many of the folk from renderosity can be found there. I have never seen you post there so I wonder if you know about it. I was off the poserforum for some months-only coming back recently and I would have missed it if I had come back a month later since the link from here to there dissapeared soon after I returned. I will try the Mobius-I may still have the P3 Mobius on a CDrom somewhere from "way back" in 1998. I have been a forum member nearly from the inception so I have lots of old goodies burned on CD-some are no longer available. Unfortunately, unless there is a readme file I wont know who created or posted so I cant ask permission to repost. I took a look at your website-very cool! I need to go back and finish looking at it since it takes a long time to load with my puny 26K connection and it was very late when I got to it. It seems there is a mythology involved-is it your creation? It might be good to make texture/bump/trans maps for the Veth hair. I just started with Steve Cox UVmapper and Photoshop so I might have a go at that with your permission! Take care, Eric Walters