Aye, I think the real issue here is ego backlashing. None of us are "THE Bryce Master", otherwise we wouldn't be here, we would have made our million dollars and be chillin out with spider monkeys instead of geeking on the internet. I own Bryce 3D(it moves!), Bryce 4, and Bryce 5 as well, but I originally bought my Bryce 3D(it moves!) from Half Price Books for WELL under half price. Does that make me a schmuck or a warez kid? I hope not, I like to thing it makes me a smart shopper. But in that case, someone had bought the program originally AT the retail price, and sold it to Half Price to pay their rent or whatever... So the Metacreations guys got their royalties, and everyone's happy. And as for the manual, it is easy reading, it might take an entire hour to digest it in it's entirety. I think that they did a great job on the Bryce 3D(it moves!) manual, and a stinky job on the Bryce 5 one... As long as we keep egotism and despite out of our posting, we should all be fine. We're artists not corporate execs, well, at least not here anyway! p.s. sorry about the (it moves!) joke, way outdated... I once got into it with a MAX user, he said 3DS was way better then Bryce and I didn't know anything about it, so all I could say was "No way, Bryce moves!"