First, everybody who could talk about this price, or any price upgrade tier, in is Texas this week for Siggraph, where they have a booth. I don't expect to see their exhausted faces (or fingers) until next Monday. A bit more patience is going to be needed. Second, that price for Poser 4 was from 4 years ago, and Poser was priced in line with Bryce and the rest of the MetaCreations suite. (Remember that it did not even have its own real renderer, it was originally designed to be an aid, not an end-product.) Third, look at the damned plug-in prices for features which ought to have been included in the major packages. For $500 you get ONE of the things which Poser 5 will do, and you must own the base package, which costs thousands of dollars. Fourth, Steve has promised tiered upgrade prices, so I suggest that we wait and see before complaining. Fifth, I've seen some of what Poser 5 can do, and this price is more than fair. It is an astonishing program. Besides, it is almost always possible to find a sale price or a bundle price. Sixth, folks in Europe have a valid concern with the duties and taxes. Since the product hasn't yet been released, maybe they could talk to CL about distribution channels to make it easier for them for them to find and afford it. Carolly