Phantast wrote: "The key questions really are, (1) what will be the upgrade price, and (2) are non-US customers going to get screwed? If we get the right answers to these two questions, things may not be too bad." Phantast, I of course agree totally with you on the two key questions. Let's not forget that for non-US users, the final price will be that indicated by CL PLUS the customs PLUS any charge of expenses PLUS any share for the reseller, be it fair or etremely greedy as it's always been. So, it really is DECEIVING to say, e.g. "ah... well $250 for the upgrade is not that bad". It wouldn't be, PER SE, but what will become that $250 for the final non-US customer? Previous experience with Poser shows that what is orginally a $250 price is going to become something between $400 and $450 at the end of the chain. THAT's most likely what's going to happen and that's what is scaring me. One final note: many have written to justify Curious Labs for trying to reposition Poser from the hobbyist application it was, into the mid-price range. I do NOT question that. Poser 5 may well have all the needed super-fantastic features to be truly right and appropriate in becoming a mid-price range software. My problem is: if THIS is going to happen, then WHY have Curious Labs tried to make us believe that Poser 5 will be in the continuity of tradition with Poser 4? This wording does not hold to be true according to the first facts emerging. They should have said "we have added tons of extra features to Poser 5 and we feel Poser 5 now deserves to be placed in a price range that is appropriate to it's quality level". So why trying to make us believe that Poser 5 was in the Poser tradition of low end market? That was not fair to Poser customers. It raised expectations that are likely to be let down.