I have to agree with Staale. While I am not worried about upgrade price, the entry level for new users ($550US, probably $750+ in Europe) is simply going to out of the price range for most hobbyists. I bought Poser 4 a few years ago from a store shelf and it cost me the equivalent of about $180 (if memory serves me correctly). I did a lot of humming and hawing before I decided to fork out the dough. Had it been three times the price, I don't think that there would have been any chance of my buying it, regardless of features. I suspect that most users who are not involved semi-professionally in the graphics industry would feel the same. And, for me, these gifted amateurs are the lifeblood of the community, and what has distinguished Poser from other products. In reality, this has been coming for some time, at least since ProPack. While I got a shock when the P5 price was announced, I also got another shock when I went to check the current P4/bundle price. CL has been pushing the prices up steadily into the mid-range market, to a degree that, so far as I am aware, is unprecedented. What is on offer for P5 is certainly impressive, but this level of improvement between versions is not unusual in software. The level of price increase however is, and CL are patently no longer marketing to the low-end market. If in the last few years CL had instead reduced the combined Poser4/ProPack price to $150 (which would have been perfectly reasonable for 4-5 year old software), P5 could have been priced at $350-$400 dollars with the same upgrade differential. Most of the initial P5 income would have been unaffected, and they could have kept a healthy store-shelf product. As it stands they are in direct competition with the mid-range products, and high-range plug-ins and entry products. This is a very competitive market. Anyway, business decisions have been made by people who are a great deal more market aware than I, but in the future, I expect this is going to have a detrimental effect on the community. It will certainly be a sad day when, a few years from now, we are the ones looking down on the users of some "low end" apps with inferior technologies; and doing so fail to recognise the dynamism and creativity of those communities. Bill