I just read Legume's comments :) if saying Poser5 is great would get the person a copy then a lot of people would be getting a big surprise soon, not very likely, that would involve some serious ass kissing & my lips ain't up to the job ;) I'm content to wait till sept 18th, oops no that's not the official date that I know of, but funnily enough CL announced poser4.03 on 24th July 2000 then released it 18th September, which is about 8 weeks away from now, make your own conclusions from that :) Rob