WOW, this looks great Whisper. Very natural. You could get a great beach umbrella at www.sams3d.com for free:-) Big waves are made with dunes. Have a look at my sample scene on the Vue extra CD called "waves". The above surfer image (very old)... were created in Vue 3 (imported Poser 3 figure). There is not one drop of water in it:-) and no post work. Just cloud material. Have also a look at gracia's technic here: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=740126#12 Guitta