haven't we all lived with the bugs in poser4 for years? we've all complained about them too, it's quite obvious they won't be fixed before the release of poser5 if ever. It would be easy to blame Metacreations for all the problems but don't forget a lot of them helped to create CL & are still there working away on poser5. From the little I've seen of Poser5 it's the program they wanted to make, if they managed to fit in some of the things we asked for then even better for them. Don't forget too that Poser4 was written for Windows95 on pc which wasn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer compared to the OS that are round now. Rob