WOG - just my 0.2 ;o) Please put an IMHO in front of all that's said below. o The community's acquiescence to Poser/CL? The comm is the most dedicated AND most critical I've ever seen - that's what makes Poser great (probably why Kupa & co. takes the comm so seriously). o Ignored by CL? Make a search for "Kupa" and "Nosfiratu" - but we sometimes ignore that CL is a business. o Problems and bugs in Poser? Plenty of'em - all apps have them. And Pro Pack made figure setup a matter of hours instead of days, besides opening up Poser to 3DM and LW. I'd have paid twice the price just for the Setup Room. o Put off for years? Avatar labs? Everyone jumped on the internet/new economy fantasy bubble - why should CL be different? And no, I ain't seen an Avatar anywhere, either ;o) o Honest and forthcoming? Hey, M$ still claims that plug-and-play works! Seriously, it does, most of the time, we just tend to feel it that much more when it doesn't. Ditto with Poser's shortcomings - how many apps could enable the amount of art and artists we see in the galleries here? o Price strategy? You ever tried following, say, Caligari's changing price strategies (speaking as a long-time TS fan)? o Wish lists? Everybody and his brother has'em. CL asked for input, they never said they'd use it all (how could they - I could out-wish their programming man-hours in five minutes LOL) o Support CL? Nope - we support a great product. Most of us will never meet the CL gang personally. Most of us WILL remember that Kupa kept Poser alive between MetaCreations and CL, though. I'm VERY sure the original CL gang could've sold their skills quite profitably to other 3D app companies. o A product that works? It DOES, man - look at the galleries. It could work far, far better - and it will, if we continue to be supportive and critical. And no, I'm not a beta tester, just a highly satisfied, highly critical customer.