There may well be some CL groupies here & you may think I'm one of them, but that's only after using Poser4 & chatting & swapping jokes with some of them, they are nice people who just happen to have created the software which we as users have pushed to the very limits of its capability. You mention Crosstalk, that was caused by us not by CL or poser, if Charles Taylor, Robert Whisenant & others hadn't found out how to use it there'd be no problem with it at all. Personally I'm not bothered if Crosstalk isn't fixed for P5 we have ways round the problem already. Rob