Interestingly point nwalker, I've been waiting for someone to mention this. Stitch is an amazing cloth system for Max. It's developed by Size8. The wierd part? Seems that if a crane my neck to the side a bit and twist the P5 box around just so, I see this tagline that sezs something like "Poser 5 cloth technology licensed from Size8" hmmm. Go figure. re: Real world measurement systems in Poser 5- We now are using measurements that range from millimeters, centimeters, feet, etc. So now Poser scenes can be correltated to real world measurements. Now we just need some clever end user to build a tape-measure for pulling distance, to set focal points for depth of field blurring in the new renderer. wolf, I did a rendering yesterday of a great new hairstyle using about 8000 hair strands. Maybe a posting is in order... Anyway, it took me less than 6 minutes, with three shadow maps to render. The hairstylist?, she's well known here for great hair, and has created some amazing styles that'll be included with P5. I'll et you guys know as soon as she's wrapped up the last plans. Don't want her getting buried just yet. Kupa