its funny, but some of us might remember back in the early days of 3d when 3d studio max was the laughing stock of the modelling community, and its rendering engine is still years behind every other major package. yet now there are 3d max users who consider it a matter of pride that they model in 3ds studio max instead of the "low end" packages. But i know i am much more satisfied with poser 4 for use in character animation than that joke called character studio, and i know poser 5 should easily make up for the cost of all max 4's silly plugins. The same can apply to many other modelling packages. I have never expected poser to perform as a full animator and modeller, so why diss it because it isnt? Half of those high end modelling snobs can't even produce quality as good as experienced poser users, so when they can i might put more weight in their ideas. And those who can produce high quality work, i notice never bother to snub the tools of others... their too busy making money with what they have.