Soulhunter: first i do consider Cinema a high end CG program :-) it can do nurbs modeling ,cloth, hair, volumetric smoke,fire and flowing liquid simulation and collision physics and the forum i was speaking of IS a general Cinema4DXL forum I dont go into "Modeling" forums expecting praise for Mike2 or vicky. im an animator who does'nt give a hoot about modeling and my point is that the end results matter. and people in some forums tend to think the spending many long hours trudging through endless vertix weights and restriction tags is an end unto itself. as long as it was done the good old fashioned hard way in an "approved" program. despite the fact that the end result is a mediocre tail wag. the truth of the matter is most of the people who hang in forums and engage in software bashing are not working pros in the CG industry. but people seeking to be part of popular software Cliques!! There was a lightwave user here at renderosity that trashed poser and its users at EVERY OPPORTUNITY!! calling ALL of us "no talent Cloners" until it was discoverd that he was "closet "poser user with a gallery here full of vicky pictures. its as if getting Lightwave Obligated him to trash poser despite the fact that he was a poser /vicky owner after he was "outed" (by me after trashing my character animation work) He then spent several week desparatey trying to sell his copy of poser and bryce to somehow"restore" his perceived "status" in the lightwave community its a strange mentality.

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