English Bob: "Well, actually, what I heard was that you fell off your horse, drunk of course, and that you broke your bloody neck." Little Bill Daggett: "I heard that one myself, Bob. Hell, I even thought I was dead 'til I found out it was just that I was in Nebraska." :-) The Poser renderer won't do "spill" nor any of that fancy stuff - it's way too literal minded for that. There's usually a way to fake things, but using Vue is quicker. ;-) Thanks Nance. I'd heard of the shadowcam trick but didn't know how to do it. You learn something every day...