I really appreciate the comments. Yes, I can make the logo less 2d ish. its still got that masking pixelization and especially in the lines in the butterfly wings. I think its slightly out of place too, which bugs the heck out of me now. Yeah, I'd like something in between, but I want to put a logo on the farside of the cup too and don't want then interacting. As for the TIR, its set at 8. I don't want to go lower cuz I like the glass reflections and really want more if possible. Now that I look at the real cup, I see there's another goof. The inside has 12, not 8 faces. I don't know about making the logo a terrain. its a thought though. Has its advantages. Yeah, its Electric Image Universe 2.9 from the 3dtoolkit that www.dvgarage.com is having a sale on right now. ok, thanks everyone.