Dave-so: In defense of those images, you CANNOT do some of those things in P4, the Strand-based hair for instance. It looks like they didn't apply any of the dynamics to the hair, though, which might have been more impressive. Nor did I see the conforming cloth, true reflection, refraction, etc. Not to mention that the Default P5 models are vastly more flexible than Vicky, with the ability to use pins, putty tools, etc. as well as the Face Room for generating photo-real textures and head morphs from photographs. The fact is, those renders probably took very little time in Poser 5, but in Poser 4 would have taken hours and hours of work, to still not look as good. Paul