I've been 'investigating' (read playing) with TD today and found that with scaling different components I can fill out a tree to my hearts content. Especially, since you can create your own leaf transparancy maps, you can create multiple leaves where there is only one leaf placement. Just trying to make the decision even harder. How am I doing? BTW, check out the online manual at www.zenstar.com for a more complete description of the capabilities. It's pretty thorough. The thing that I really like about the plug in version is that there is no importing of obj files so the shading goes faster. Mark