there you are! first, thanks for making figure symmetry read EVERYTHING and anything that matches names from the l and r sides to copy joint parameters! it saves tons of hours! second, i went to build ik chains in the hierarchy editor and dreaded the long sessions of dragging things around through the whole screen just to get them to the bottom.... when lo and behold, the closed branches in the editor STAYED CLOSED!!! oh!!! im SO HAPPY!!! you have saved my sanity!! (um, well, you were too late on that, actually, but at least i'm not getting worse, now!) :) thanks so much!