Zak, Good work on sellions. Poser 5 users are going to be pushing the edge of charcater animation and set-up. And this goes way beyond what you'd expect to have control over in "ANY" 3D character system. And the detail on subdivision surfaces is correct. At rendertime Firefly will smooth polys to whatever degree you specify. There are certainly practical limits though. This way we can deliver figures that are about 24,000 facets/verts in size and these can smooth at rendertime to look much smoother than they appear in mesh form. BTW, the render time in Firefly for a higher res version of the image with the raytraced reflections and about 10,000 hairs with polygon smoothing and soft shadows (raytraced shadows on hair produce a hard edged hair by hair shadow, that looks very unrealistic, we can do that with Firefly if you really want that look) was about 1.5 hours.