Look very good Hawk! I will try the setting you said, but I am pretty sury I did that too, the pieces of the eyes that intersect is what caused my black-eye syndrome, but maybe I did it backwards? Anyway, glad it worked for you. I use the same technique on the hait with good results. Patrick, I don't use GI for that reason, at least with Poser imports, I have P5 preordered and refresh my Carrara page daily waiting for the patch too =) JDexter P.S. I love Grouper BTW, that has helped me a whole bunch it is truly a great thing. Major kudos to the author!